Needed a tire, garage added weights

"Jagvar" (Jagvar) 09/09/2013 at 18:49 • Filed to: None

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I badly gouged a tire on a trip to PA a couple of weeks ago, so I decided to do the safe thing and replace it (even though I only had 2,000 miles on that tire, and those Continentals ain't cheap). Well, when I picked up my car from the tire place today, these were stuck to the inside of the rim. The guy said they're weights that he added to balance the wheel.

Is this really the best way to do this? It looks freaking ugly, and it's work that I didn't ask for. But heck, maybe I need it. You tell me.

kouryuuk > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:51

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Yea these are commonly used now, they are included in a standard mounting and balancing.

505Turbeaux > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:52

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that is the way it is done often enough these days, usually on the innermost lip of the tire. It's legit. Thing took an decent amount of weight though. those look like .25? What kind of car?

HammerheadFistpunch > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:53

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what continetals? I ask because I damaged my conti's too, i guess the sidewalls on the extreme contact arn't so great from what I hear

Crocket Bernet > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:53

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I've got them.

The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:55

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Less ugly than this kind...

GhostZ > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:55

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It would look good if the rim around it was cleaned and polished.

anonsagainstanonymous > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:57

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Yap, that's standard procedure. Wheels must be balanced before they're put on the car. Otherwise it's get real shaky up in thar. I assume these are on the inside of the wheels, though? On the outside, they usually hammer on the good old fashioned type.

f86sabre > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:58

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Yup. That's the way.

A few years ago I ordered some tires for the Evo and had them delivered to a Porsche specialist for mounting and balancing. They took their time and did a great job and used weights like that and did a good job keeping them hidden. A few weeks later I took the car in for an oil change and did me the service of rotating and balancing the tires. They pulled off the nice weights and stuck the old school external weights to the Enkie rims. Chipped the finish in the process. I was not thrilled.

lonestranger > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 18:59

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Yes, those are wheel weights, and they're perfectly normal.

Is it they type of weight that seems odd to you, or the fact that a weight was added at all?

For a mounted tire and wheel to be in perfect balance is virtually nonexistent. Variances in rubber and belt construction are inevitable.

The old-style clamp-on wheel weights are still used on steel wheels and some alloys, but many alloys's lips could become damaged by standard clamp-on weights. Hence, stick-on weights. They rarely fall off, since the adhesive is super-strong, and the centrifugal (centripetal?) force pushes the onto the wheel, not away from it.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:00

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I don't know much about cars, so you'll have to forgive this question, but what in the hell do these actually do? JAGVAR says they balance the wheel, but adding weight to one side of a wheel would unbalance it, right?

Klaus Schmoll > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:01

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That's standard procedure. If your wheels are off the car they put it on this machine which magically tells them where to put these wheels weights.

I've been a cheapskate and not had them do it, which landed me with cars that drove fine unto a certain mph (80 for example) and then developed unnerving wheel wobble, only to have it completely stop at 100 mph, but start again at 110 and so on.

Pearson Hurst > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:06

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NSA tracking device! Scrape them off!

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 09/09/2013 at 19:09

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it depends on the circumstance. If the machine is asking for weight on that side, then it's added.

pdish > GhostZ 09/09/2013 at 19:10

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Zing!

djmanila > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 09/09/2013 at 19:10

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they add balance as a counter weight. It actually does the opposite of what you said. It depends on the tire construction and even some wheels. Nothing is produced perfectly.

AddMustard > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:14

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I prefer these to the ugly ones they stick on the lip of the rim.

EDIT: I just read your post again and I am dumbfounded. Are you serious? Or trolling us? No one will mount a tire without balancing your wheel, and this is how it's balanced. (no one legitimate, at least, would do that)

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > djmanila 09/09/2013 at 19:15

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Damn. I didn't know that. I assumed that wheels were already balanced enough. I never even thought about the tire itself. Thank you!

Jagvar > 505Turbeaux 09/09/2013 at 19:17

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Volkswagen Phaeton. Two and a half tons of German-ness.

Jagvar > Pearson Hurst 09/09/2013 at 19:17

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I knew it! The same ones who've been poisoning my drinking water!

Jagvar > HammerheadFistpunch 09/09/2013 at 19:18

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Yup, mine are Extreme Contact.

Jagvar > AddMustard 09/09/2013 at 19:19

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Never had this type of weight attached before.

McLarry > The Opponaut formerly known as MattP123 09/09/2013 at 19:21

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I was about to say I'd prefer those...unless you have aftermarket rims or something. They blend in better.

AddMustard > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:22

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I'm curious how you think it's ugly? Can you see it from the outside of the wheel? Mine are mounted clean and look so much nicer than the lip mounted weights. Are you upset cause they're so bright? What if you painted em?

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 09/09/2013 at 19:26

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No wheel/tire combo is automatically balanced when assembled - either due to variations in the production of the wheel, or more commonly mass differences in the tire, there is always *some* imbalance. To make it right, you add weight to two points on a rim until it *is* balanced. Why two places? Well, because the wheel has depth, it's capable of being what we call "statically balanced" but not "dynamically balanced". To explain further:

Take the letter X. If you were to spin the letter X around a rigid line running through its center, you'd have the same amount of letter above and below, so it would be statically balanced. If it wasn't spinning, it would balance on that line, and if you spun it on a rigid axis, as long as it wasn't jarred or disturbed, it would spin pretty well. However, in most fonts (and I'm assuming the one in your browser), the line of the X is thicker on the upper left and the lower right. The letter X is not dynamically balanced around a line through its center. What this means is that when it turns or takes a shock or accelerates, it reacts to try to rebalance itself by "pulling" with those sections of greater weight. It does this anyway when spinning at a constant speed, but if it's not accelerating or turning, this just makes a push-pull action that any stiff enough axis resists, because it's in two opposed directions and just twisting on the axle stub, not pulling it to one side only. When in one or more of those special situations, however (turning, etc.), secondary forces occur. The upper left and lower right try to pull outward or sideways harder than the upper right and the lower left, and this makes the spinning X try to tilt or wobble, even though it doesn't pull off-center. It tries (as a statically balanced object) to change its rotation in-place. To make the statically balanced X dynamically balanced, you have to add weight to the lower left arm and the upper right.

Most real-world imbalances aren't this simple. However, you only need two planes of placing weights to balance something spinning in one axis regardless, because of the way imbalances average out.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 09/09/2013 at 19:27

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A little fast-and-loose, but in case anybody non-mathey was curious about some of the basics.

Jagvar > AddMustard 09/09/2013 at 19:28

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Yep, you can see them from the outside of the wheel, and they kind of jump out visually, at least to me. I suppose I could paint them, but they don't irk me that much to really bother.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:31

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My dad lent me a spare from his Benz to put on mine after I had an issue with my spare and had a flat, and shortly after putting on the wheel, I heard a funny noise. It turns out a 4-matic Benz and a 300d with the same wheels have different clearances to the inside of the wheel, and a set of this type of weights that fit the 4matic hit the brake disc protector on the diesel. I stopped, and the weights had taken their final swipe and fell out of the wheel into my hand.

This type of weights, I see the reason for with more fragile alloys, but in a practical sense I kind of turn a hairy eyeball toward them. The whole "glue on" paradigm comes off as a little iffy, particularly for the next guy who *should* remove them. I like clip-ons.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 09/09/2013 at 19:32

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Damn...today I learned indeed! Thanks!

dogisbadob > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:44

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Caramello tire weights!

MR2_FTW - Group J's resident Stig > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 19:49

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You usually use stickyweights on the inside of the wheel so you can't see it when the wheels are on the car. Yes it's common. I prefer them than the ugly lip type, which scar up your wheels pretty bad.

Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull > Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? 09/09/2013 at 19:50

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I tried to keep it simple enough to follow, glad you enjoyed it.

One of the questions on my "fundamentals of engineering" exam was actually doing the math by hand to calculate where to put masses in two planes to balance a spinning body. Much less fun than it sounds.

doodon2whls > Jagvar 09/09/2013 at 20:41

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Wheel and Tire assemblies must be spin balanced to ensure your comfort and avoid wearing out the chassis bits of your car.

The wheels I have on my car (BBS RX) do not have a bead flanges that accept 'bang-on' clipped weights, so the inner and middle plane weights are all stick-on. I even use stick-on weights on my motorcycle wheels/tire assemblies.

If you keep your wheels clean they aren't as noticeable. On my black motorcycle wheels, I cover the silver weights with black electrical tape. If you prefer not to clean your silver wheels, wait a few months and those weights will be dirty to match the wheels.

BTW, 1.25 oz is a good bit of weight for a passenger car tire to need on one plane. What size, brand, model of tire and wheel are you running ?

SteyrTMP > Jagvar 09/10/2013 at 01:22

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When I was at school (machinist), I also was pretty well known in the auto shop. I did my own alignments (Lotus and Impreza), and balanced my own wheels. I just don't trust today's youth....

There are three main types of weights. Sticky-tack type, like what you have, aluminum clip-ons, and steel clip-ons.

When your car is balanced, the tire and wheel size and width is entered, then it's placed on a shaft and spun at a pre-set speed. The balancer then reads out the highs and lows, i.e. where it needs weight. I figure, when your wheels came from the factory, they were round within a certain limit. I suspect higher end wheels are usually more true than others, but whenever tires are mounted, they still need to be balanced. Again, this is with no experience in this area, but I figure neither the tires or the rims are truly perfect, any deviance from the initial design is going to put weight on one side of the wheel or another. Once driven, dents and dings in the rims will change the balance as well.

So, once the readout tells you the light side of the wheel, they place a weight there, and it balances out the wheel. They SHOULD always be on the inside of the rim, closer to the car. Sometimes, if it's really bad, they may need them on both front and back.

The kind they put on your rim is the easiest and fastest way. The negative side is the fact that they can come off. It looks like they didn't scrub the rim well before placing them on, so the chance of them coming off over time is greater.

The clip-on type of weights don't usually come off, but are kinda ugly. As long as it's on the inside of the wheel, it's not a big deal. The negative side of that is that they can mar the finish. There are an aluminum clip type for alloy rims, and steel clips for steelies.

Osiris - I can haz Euro spec? > Ramblin Rover - The Vivisector of Solihull 09/10/2013 at 10:57

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Thank God I went into IT instead of engineering. Yea, IT has some math...but it's usually adding how many computers we need for a specific router or switch. Not that crazy fancy stuff you use. Ha ha.